Women's Work and On the Prowl

[giandujakiss]

So for obvious reasons, people have been comparing these two vids. There are a lot of differences between them just in terms of the intent of the creators, and the POV in the way the vids were constructed. Additionally, this may be really obvious, but I hadn't seen it mentioned so...



In terms of their content relative to canon, to me the fundamental difference is that Women's Work is about anonymous women - disposable female characters, most of whom appeared in only one episode, for the purpose of dying bloody.

On the Prowl, though, is about the heroes. I didn't recognize all the sources, but I think all or at least most of the men are the main or at least significant ongoing characters in their shows, and their suffering and pain is the focus of considerable narrative and character development - in canon as well as fandom.

Which feeds into why I like always-a-girl stories. Because we tend not to get that kind of woobie!heroine character in canon. Women characters have their own strengths and attractions but they tend not to have the particular woobieness that fandom loves (which usually includes a sort of self-destructive recklessness that goes hand-in-hand with injury). In fact, one of the best examples of a canon heroine who has that male-woobie-ness that fandom loves is BSGs Starbuck - who is, herself, a genderswap.

ETA: Oh, Faith. You could probably put Faith in this category as well. And this is probably why I've always loved Catwoman, particularly the Michelle Pfeiffer incarnation. - And, nicole_anell points out in comments - Cara, from LotS. No wonder I love her too :-).

Comments

[ratcreature]

It's been a while since I watched Women's Work, but that wasn't a vid that came to my mind while watching On the Prowl. My first thought were of some of the single fandom vids I watched that hurt my favorite character a lot, like that SGA vid "A Lieutenant Colonel is being beaten" by thingswithwings, even though that didn't escalate as much. I mean, since On the Prowl stopped short of eyeball injury/torture (my main visual hurt squick, probably because I've had had my eyes examines very frequently ever since I was a baby and also had eye operations, so any eye stuff reminds me unpleasantly of personal doctor encounters panic) I wasn't much disturbed by the violence, and I like fictional hurt and torture.

So I did not watch that vid as critical commentary, but enjoyed seeing characters hurt. Actually I've been wanting to check bac to see whether a list of used sources was posted yet, because I didn't recognize all, and now I'm curious whether there might be a new fandom among them for me. If this was single fandom cuting together these kinds of scenes would work as a recruiter vid for me.

[giandujakiss]

I think the vid has a couple of different ways it can be read, but one of them is a critical commentary on the kinds of things that fandom finds attractive/seeks out. A Lieutenant Colonel is being Beaten is more ... celebratory, I think, and is also more of a comment on the source text.

[ratcreature]

I guess. I mean it was rather relentless, but as someone who likes fetishized torture -- and of course I have the usual ambivalent feelings about that, in the "what does this say about me?" sense, though I reassure myself that at least graphic descriptions by real torture victims for example when reading autobiographies have never turned me on -- this vid actually didn't make me go meta or introspective about my preference. I guess it might come across very differently if you don't like fetishized torture to begin with, or only like mild h/c or something.

[aethel]

For me it also worked as a meta commentary on repetition in fanfiction and the creation of fanon--by the time we've had our way with these characters, there's not much left of them. :D At least that's how I feel after reading 50 million first-time Harry/Draco stories....

[giandujakiss]

That's interesting - I have to say that never occurred to me but it's an amusing way to think about it!

[hazelk]

Definitely agree about the men being protagonists and that making a difference. Get Low is interestingly structured in this respect too, as it starts with the focus on all the disposable clones being disposed of and shifts to Alice as herself in the comeback.

[giandujakiss]

I have not seen Get Low - I admit, I'm afraid of it. I tend to shy away from gore/horror :-).

[brownbetty]

I would say Get Low is less uh, squicky than On the Prowl, although of course I don't know your personal squicks.

[cathexys]

That wasn't the vid that came to my mind at all. In fact, a friend immediately said, Oh, a less sexy and positive The Fannish Taxonomy of Hotness, and that's where my mind went too. Both with the awareness that we're returning the gaze by seeing these repetitions of men in overtly sexualized (objectified?) poses, and in the argument being made by the repetition of the same types of scenarios again and again. Hot Hot Hot had a moment where it touches upon torture & h/c (with the awareness that the source text offers it and we're honing in on it) and Prowl took this moment, this (slightly?) tarnished underside of our fannish gaze and ran with it...

So, I agree with you/everyone, that something very different is going on here. If nothing else, the criticism seems to be directed differently: WW is a fuck you to TPTB with a serious "look fans, this is what we're calling our show" on the side; Prowl, otoh, is a complete focus on our fannish viewing and on what we choose to select/focus on with a serious "and we can only do so because TPTB already give us all that violence" on the side....

[giandujakiss]

Heh - I've only seen it compared to Women's Work - I haven't seen anyone mention Taxonomy, but you're right, of course - that's what it is, from the POV of the creators. The comparisons I saw, however, were less about creator intent, exactly (although it's hard not to notice that both are Sisabet vids), but about just the level of violence that appears in the source content. And if you know nothing about anything, you might look at the two vids and see "okay, lots of violence against people" - but the vids do illustrate how the violence plays out differently in the source.

[cathexys]

Yes, I can imagine at VVC seeing either one the shock effect may indeed have been similar.

But to me the directionality is everything...look what they do to us versus look what we do to them :) I find Prowl much more difficult as a viewer because i'm used to identifying with the victim...not so much becoming (effectively) the perpetrator...

[cesperanza]

Remember, too, that it was for the self-portrait challenge. That makes a huge difference IMO, because it wasn't a calling out (I think WW *was* a calling out) but a self-description that many fans identified with.

[giandujakiss]

Oh, I totally agree - I mean, the purpose of the vids and the POV of the vids is totally dissimilar. Not disagreeing at all. I just meant that if you look at it purely based on the sources used, what you see is that both have extreme violence against men and women, which might look like it's the same, but when considered in the context of the source itself is actually very different.

[erda]

As usual, your thoughts are very interesting. I haven't heard any discussion of this, and I hadn't thought of it myself.

Aargh. I find it kind of rage inducing that fandom thinks about the implications of things so much more than mundane people. So much self examination in such a small segment of the population.

[giandujakiss]

Well, we're more invested in the source, which is why we're more reflective than non-fandom. I'm not particularly reflective about things I care less about :-).

[l_elfie]

came across your post looking for "one the prowl" meta because of all the comments on the vid post itself, and i love the idea that if we just broke down the hero/heroine types a little further, we might have a vid like this entirely about ladies, too--but not in a creepy, "this is what women are for" victim way, but in a celebratory, "we objectify because we love" way, if that makes sense.